How Anesthesia Costs Reshape ASC Growth

Ep. 137: Garrison Gordon & Corey Hollman – How Anesthesia Costs Reshape ASC Growth

Anesthesia costs and staffing pressures are reshaping ASC operations. In this episode, Garrison Gordon and Cory Hollmann break down shifting reimbursement, rising subsidies, and evolving partnership models between surgery centers and anesthesia groups. Learn practical strategies to align incentives, improve collections, manage risk, and build sustainable anesthesia relationships that support long-term growth.

In our news recap, we’ll cover Oath Surgical’s new partnership with NVIDIA, how Optum’s acquisition of physician practices and ASCs is playing out, Medtronic and Mindray’s investment in the ASC space, and how the University of Michigan Health is using AI-driven diagnostic tools to scan brain MRIs in seconds with 97.5% accuracy.

Be sure to check out the full episode on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform!

Episode Transcript

Together, they walk through what’s driving rising subsidies, how common anesthesia agreement models. Are structured today and what a SC leaders can do right now to have more productive, transparent conversations with the anesthesia providers.

In today’s news recap, we’ll cover a few stories including both Surgicals new partnership with Nvidia Optum’s acquisitions. Medtronic and mind raise investments in the A SC space and a bit on ai. Hope everyone enjoys the episode.

Hey, Garrison and Corey, it’s so great to have you on our podcast this week. To start, can each of you share a bit about your background and how you interact with the economics of anesthesia?

[00:02:00] Garrison Gordon: So, yeah, I have spent my career in revenue cycle, initially working with health systems on the hospital side. But for the last seven years I’ve been in the professional space, the last five of which in anesthesia. So I worked for north Star Anesthesia, which is. A large national anesthesia group running revenue cycle and doing payer negotiations there. So very familiar with the fee for service revenue component of the economics of the.

[00:02:25] Corey Hollman: Yeah. And me, myself I’m Cory Holman. I come in from the operation side. I’ve spent most of my career running and scaling ASCs probably the last 15 years where anesthesia, economics aren’t just theoretical. They’re very real constraints on growth, scheduling and margin, even if anesthesia isn’t on the p and l directly. It absolutely always shows up in your subsidy line, your block utilization and your surgeon satisfaction. Always big issues. And as we all know the last couple years especially things have tra changed dramatically and there’s been a quite a crunch on, on anesthesia providers.

[00:03:00] Grant Duncan: Yeah, certainly. How have you seen the economics between ASCs and anesthesia groups shift over the last several years? Of course, as you were saying, there’s been a provider crunch. CMS rates have been changing. Garrison, why don’t we start with you?

[00:03:21] Garrison Gordon: Yeah. So, biggest things on the reimbursement side. From an anesthesia economic standpoint Medicare has reduced reimbursement for anesthesia by 9% since 2019. So been downward pressure on the Medicare side. Medicaid for the most part has not offered any increases, stayed consistent on reimbursement. And then on the commercial side, either, a provider group was using an out-of-network strategy using things, wrap networks, like multi-plan or other loopholes to get, higher out-of-network reimbursement. So large amount of revenue from a very small portion of the patient population that kind of flipped on its head with the passage of the No Surprises Act which in 2022 overnight significantly reduced out-of-network reimbursement, which also had an in impact on in-network. So, in best cases, many groups were able to maintain their in-network reimbursement. But in a lot of cases payers were offering, not offering cost of living adjustments on those rates or at times even asking provider groups to take decreases on contracted rates. So definitely downward pressure on the revenue side.

And then as Cory mentioned, on the expense side the supply of providers got very tight relative to demand as. Centers are trying to rebuild back from pandemic, so a lot of providers are starting to switch jobs frequently. Take higher offers, go to the highest bidder work in more of that contract labor status, which is more expensive for an anesthesia group. So seeing anesthesia prices, wages go up by 25 or even 30% year over year. So revenue down the expense of running an anesthesia practice up. That’s where the subsidy line has seen significant increases over the last few years as Corey mentioned.

[00:05:16] Corey Hollman: Yeah. And Garrison I agree. Com completely. It’s in addition on, just on my side. Over the past several years, I feel like the balance of power has really shifted towards anesthesia groups. The CMS rates, like you mentioned, have steadily compressed commercial rates, having kept pace with the labor inflation. Same time we’ve, and at the same time we’ve seen a real shortage of anesthesiologists and CRNAs. Obviously when supply tightens like that, coverage becomes. Scarce and that’s where, stipends, guarantees, minimums start to creep in. Whether we like it or not, anesthesia providers do hold a lot of the cards right now, or at least that’s the way it feels on our end.

[00:05:54] Grant Duncan: Yeah, I can see that. I’ve definitely heard that from other ASCs as well. Corey, can you walk us through at your a SC. What your current anesthesia agreement looks like and how it’s structured?

[00:06:07] Corey Hollman: Yeah. In, in our model it’s. It’s a, I guess you’d say it’s a guaranteed revenue anesthesia model where our anesthesia group is protected on the downside and the a SC absorbs most of the financial risk tied to volume reimbursement and staffing demand. They, specifically their. We, the anesthesia company obviously provides all the anesthesia, staffing bills, and collects from the payers and patients bears operational staffing responsibilities while we, while the surgery center guarantees a minimal. Minimum monthly revenue. And then they makes up any shortfall if collections do not meet the guarantee. Pay sets up, pay pays, set case-based rates for certain facility build cases as well. So there’s a lot of there’s a several. Guarantees as far as the monthly financial guarantee that we pay the company. And then there’s some variable aspects based on if the volumes change we need more anesthesia providers or if collections that are not quite optimal and we need to. Compensate on the backend with obviously paying a little bit more because they’re getting paid less. So it’s it’s a multifactorial system, but it’s, it seems like, that we as the a SC is definitely holding a little bit more of the risk and it’s. It’s daunting at times, when we, our volumes drop and and especially around right after the holidays where we got the rush from the, everybody making their, everybody hitting their out of, pocket demands and things like that. And then all of a sudden we hit a real slow time. It definitely puts us in a position where we’re crunching those anesthesia providers trying to limit the amount that we use. And it’s. It makes it a challenging, landscape. Definitely.

[00:07:51] Grant Duncan: I imagine many are feeling that Q4 rush and now the Q1, slow down.

[00:07:59] Corey Hollman: Yeah.

[00:08:00] Grant Duncan: As you’re mentioning Garrison, when you look at different models that are possible for arrangements between anesthesia and ASCs, what do you see as other common structures beyond what Corey mentioned and. Where do you see those breakdown in terms of rough percentages?

[00:08:21] Garrison Gordon: Yeah. I think the model that Corey described of a revenue guarantee is one that I’ve seen quite a bit of lately. I think there’s always an implicit connection between what an anesthesia group is able to collect from a fee for service standpoint and the impact of that on subsidy. Even in models where there’s maybe a flat monthly stipend that amount is still based on. Modeling of what amount of revenue the, in the anesthesia group is able to get from fee for service collections, patient collections and how that compares to the expense of running the practice.

I have seen other, I think, flat stipends are less and less common, particularly in the environment that Corey described where. Volume is not necessarily as predict predictable as it used to be. There’s impacts to reimbursement outside of, collections, efficacy, Medicare reductions, rate reductions. That that revenue guarantee is a way that anesthesia groups have moved frankly, that financial risk onto the, to the surgery center. I’ve seen other things like day rates where surgery centers will contract with anesthesia groups and. Depending on what kind of coverage they’re looking for, they’ll pay maybe a day rate. Sometimes that is also trued up to collections. I would say though, that revenue guarantee is the most common instance that I’ve seen. Example of a subsidy arrangement,

[00:09:42] Grant Duncan: And Corey. As A SC leader, I’m sure you’re thinking about how to grow volume or add new specialties over time. How does anesthesia availability and pricing influence your decisions on the business model for the A SC and potential expansion options?

[00:10:05] Corey Hollman: Yeah, I mean it, it used to be a kind of a factor, but really not as as paramount, it as is now. Anesthesia availability is often the single biggest gating factor in a SC growth at this point in time, at least in my opinion. You can have surgeons ready, equipment purchase. Demand lined up, but if you can’t staff another room, add block time growth just stops it. It impacts which specialties you can recruit, which days you can expand, and even how aggressive you can be with surgeon onboarding. It’s just, it just it’s become definitely something that you need to keep on the forefront of your mind at a, at all times. And, we’re constantly, we’re a center that has been around for. About four, four years. So we’re still in a major growth phase where we’re still trying to fill out, the space that we do have. So we do have physical space, but when it comes down to staffing it through anesthesia providers, that’s, is become more of a limiting factor. And so we’ve, been with a couple of different groups. We’ve, looked at different options to do that and are still actually considering other models at this point to try to make, to try to be able to, aid our growth expansion projects and things in the future.

[00:11:14] Grant Duncan: Garrison, when you hear that what stands out to you, or if you were to take the anesthesia group side? What reaction do you have are anesthesia groups often feeling similar business model pressure and how they relate to a SC volume?

[00:11:34] Garrison Gordon: Yeah, absolutely. I think as Corey mentioned, function of an anesthesia group is to recruit and staff and meet those staffing needs of their facility partners. So, certainly it’s, number one value delivery point for an anesthesia group. I think, growth is good for everyone, so. Certainly I would expect that an anesthesia group is positioned at least aligned with the goal of growth. But as we’ve discussed, the supply on the provider side, is that limiting factor. So I think where anesthesia groups and surgery centers can be really successful is by, working together as much as possible to, modify the care team models. And maybe move as clinically appropriate, more types of services to be covered by CRNAs or change ratios with providers to extend, make the supply that we have go further. And then I would imagine that predictability is is valuable as well. So as much as anesthesia groups can be communicating proactively with their surgery centers about what the pipeline looks like and what the timeline looks like to get those position filled, that certainly enables the surgery center to, to, plan for its growth. Certainly I’m out of my depth a little bit. I’m more on the revenue side, but I think that partnership is where clear lines of communication can help. Plan against those obstacles versus encounter them when you’re not expecting.

[00:13:02] Corey Hollman: Yeah, I agree. I think that partnership is is vital. I always said, even as a leader in an organization, my relationships with my chief of surgery and my anesthesia group is my biggest. The biggest and most important relationships that I need to have. And in this day, I think it’s even more, I think it’s more now with anesthesia being that paramount relationship that really needs to be able to be able to be transparent, not defensive, and be able to put the cards on the table, look at old ways of doing things and seeing if there’s ways that can benefit both of us.

[00:13:33] Grant Duncan: Yeah, I can imagine that can be hard for some a SC leaders to do that kind of partnership You’re talking about though, right? To show your cards and know that there are financial implications based on what you share or don’t share. How would you suggest a SC leaders have those conversations and be that kind of partner you’re talking about Corey?

[00:13:57] Corey Hollman: I would think like I said being, actually having, being transparent with metrics being able to, look at our, look at, be able to look at each side of our things and share the responsibilities because ultimately if if the collections are weak, it’s gonna come back to the a SC through higher subsidies. So even if we don’t bill it, we absolutely pay for it. So it’s. It’s having, it’s just having, very transparent conversations and putting the cards out there, putting your data, showing your metrics, showing, what, where the opportunities are to grow to help each other. And, it all has to be. To do that. It’s, it takes a, just a very clear, concise plan, and and just being able to have, measurable values and metrics and things that we all can look at, we all can read. We all can see where things are going. So it’s not, there’s nobody that’s blindsided in this, in the partnership.

[00:14:49] Grant Duncan: Totally. We’ve seen some ASCs collect anesthesia payments on behalf of the anesthesia group at the A SC using. So the as c shows the anesthesia groups portal or technology they’re using. Have either of you seen that be the case? And curious what you view as the pros and cons to doing something like that.

[00:15:15] Corey Hollman: Yeah I’ve seen it. The, I’ve seen where the ASCs support anesthesia collection using shared portals or tech type devices. And like I alluded to earlier that the, IT works best when the roles are crystal clear. Communication is good when estimates are accurate. Bills are timely. Patients understand what they owe before surgery. And collections will improve and the friction drops for everyone. I think the hardest part of this is the operational side lift as far as front desk workflows, staff training, patient confusion. Why am I paying twice type of mentality and and tech integration, adding complexity to it all. Having more, platforms that you’re navigating through. You some confusion and, disruption, bottlenecks of processes and things. It, and again, incentives would have to be aligned. The tech truly should be turnkey. And the values. The value’s very measurable and just a very concise in the way that you run the operations.

[00:16:14] Grant Duncan: Yeah, that, those are good points. Garrison, would you add anything to that?

[00:16:19] Garrison Gordon: Yeah, I would agree. I think the challenge with anesthesia is the time-based nature of reimbursement. So certainly with cash pay, case rate kind of stuff very. Easier to operationalize. But the key is in the details about how that payment is recorded and later attached to a patient account and all of that. So there’s a lot of things that need to be worked out between the surgery center and the anesthesia group to make sure that the patient ultimately gets that good experience on the back end, not just the front end but certainly tools that can give. Predictable estimates upfront benefit in my view, everyone the patient gets that streamlined billing experience and the anesthesia group benefits from the point of service, sort of face-to-face nature of collections from the a SC side.

[00:17:08] Grant Duncan: Yeah, and I know some of those tools like what HST can offer, some of them are doing pre date of service, on the date of service or post date of service. Do you see a certain timeframe of that’s often most beneficial for anesthesia groups to collect?

[00:17:29] Garrison Gordon: Yeah, ideally anesthesia groups want to collect after the claim’s been adjudicated ’cause they have the actual, like very clear amount that the patient owes. But patients are much more likely to pay their bills pre-surgery. And to the extent that. Surgery centers are comfortable with this kind of collaboration. Prepayment can be a requirement in order to move forward with the scheduled surgery, which certainly helps make sure that patient collections are better than if a patient’s allowed to move forward with the surgery and then asked to pay on the back end, sometimes 2, 3, 4 months after the surgery occurs. So, as much as I think can be done upfront to educate the patient. About their financial responsibility and collect pre-service patients are more likely to have a better sentiment towards meeting the financial obligations of the surgery paying for healthcare costs. I think there’s a lot of sentiment change around paying, patients paying out of pocket for healthcare expenses. And so as much as that can be done ahead of the surgery, I think the better.

[00:18:30] Corey Hollman: Yeah, no I agree. Definitely the clear, the earlier anesthesia estimates, like, reduce the surprise and complaints and reputation risk for the A SC, because regardless of if it’s, it’s an a SC or it’s the, an anesthesia, they’re all looked at as one entity. So it’s, it just it’s not just. And a back office issue. It shows up in reviews, surveys, surgeon conversations, patient experience, and, and quite it gets out there in the community. So it, I think it’s definitely a, definitely very important that, that happens.

[00:19:02] Garrison Gordon: Yeah. And with respect to the subsidies, patient collections tend to account for about 8% of anesthesia fee for service revenue. So. You’re talking about, a good performance backend collections would be 50% collection. So there’s a, at minimum 4% opportunity there to improve revenue. Which again, has that either implicit or direct impact on the subsidy from the surgery center.

[00:19:30] Grant Duncan: And to your points earlier, if that percentage was increased more and more, well then that puts less pressure on needing some kind of guarantee or stipend. ’cause we know more of the money is flowing through. And I know you all know this and our listeners do too, but for a lot of patients they may not know that, Hey, I’m gonna get. Two or three separate bills and they probably don’t know all of the company names as well, especially anesthesia. Like, what is this that I’m getting? This looks like a spammy request. Yeah. Yeah. This is not real. And actually this is how they need to go about paying all of their fees. So I think that’s another factor that plays into this whole conversation.

[00:20:21] Garrison Gordon: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:20:23] Corey Hollman: Yeah, I agree.

[00:20:24] Grant Duncan: So let’s imagine that we’re a new de Novo a SC and we’re designing an anesthesia partnership from scratch. Of course this will differ based on many factors, but what would you view an ideal arrangement looking like? Or at least how would you think about. The trade offs in designing that. Corey, how about we start with you?

[00:20:51] Corey Hollman: I think that just from my experiences maybe a smaller base guarantee with an upside tied to, to provide the volume utilization and collections performance would be I guess one. One area that I would like to see as well as more of the joint accountability. Anesthesia owns the billing expertise. A SC supports the front end estimates and patient communication aspect, I would think, would be also another leg of that. And then the other, the third, I think a really important thing would be shared dashboards around utilization, collection rates, payer mix and subsidy per pace. Would also, I think would be the third part of that. I would, I think, would be pivotal, but it’s, I think, a hybrid of what we’ve been doing. But again, what I alluded to earlier, as far as just the more transparency and the better, the better partnership with the anesthesia company with the vendor and it’s just they say, I’ve heard before, it says anesthesia isn’t just a line item, it’s a strategic risk. A strategic threat more so, and just. Viewing it that way heightens the, your perspective on, on how important this relationship really, truly is to your success and your longevity.

[00:22:02] Garrison Gordon: Yeah, absolutely. I think, yeah from a model standpoint, I think Corey your suggestions make a lot of sense. I, I would echo that. I think partner partnership is the right way to think about this. I’ve seen a lot of relationships that can be protective of one’s own performance metrics or defensive about. Those performance metrics or finger pointing in terms of who’s responsible for what, even things around like chart management, which for me was the number one opportunity. If I’m missing billable services, then I’m leaving revenue flat on the table. So things like that from a relationship standpoint it really should be thought of as a joint operating committee or collaboration that. Those things are important to everybody involved that we get those things right. So as much as there can be that transparency and collaboration from an operational standpoint it certainly helps.

The other thing is to be very clear about what the levers are that impact that, those economics. Things like insurance eligibility and, I, I’ve seen where there’s not even great operational processes around. Capturing insurance after, after the fact if there’s up updates to insurance on the a SC side. So all of those sort of nitty gritty operational things that impact those key metrics are jointly shared. And the transparency around metrics is the way. Corey, to your point, to keep everyone honest about what are the opportunities to, to improve.

[00:23:30] Grant Duncan: Yeah. And jumping back to the kind of tools that can help improve anesthesia collections, if a group is evaluating, Hey, I think we want to try using this kind of tool that could help with pre-dated service collections or day of or post and this let’s just assume, hey, this will. Measurably impact and improve the anesthesia patient collections. Who do you think should pay for that? The anesthesia group, the A SC or some kind of shared version of that? I understand this is gonna depend per center and group, but curious how you’d approach that.

[00:24:19] Corey Hollman: I think if if a tool that demonstratively improves anesthesia collections, I, I can’t just I can’t put it on one side that one side pays. It’s the fairest model is shared cost tied to a performance. If collections improve, subsidies go down and both sides are, both sides win essentially. The investment I think, should reflect that shared upside and be more. Collaborative than pinning it on one entity or another.

[00:24:49] Garrison Gordon: Yeah. I love that answer. Certainly. I think the anesthesia group should be bringing the expertise with respect to. What are the right investments to improve anesthesia performance? So is it patient collections or is there some other investment that should be made in order to to tackle some other area of revenue leakage or opportunity? I think surgery centers rightly should look to their anesthesia partners for that kind of expertise. But transparency around. Those costs and maybe sharing some sort of upside or incentive as Corey’s suggesting is a good way to make sure both parties are bought in. I’ve seen instances where surgery centers will say, it’s not my job to collect the anesthesia revenue. At the same time that they have a revenue guarantee subsidy arrangement. So the reality is that those are your dollars to collect. Even if that’s not how we like to think about it, right? So, I think both parties need to work together. And so that might mean other ways of purchasing those. Technologies that lead to that performance.

That said, I do feel that revenue cycle performance is a competitive advantage for anesthesia groups. It’s in the anesthesia group’s best interest. I would have a lot of surgery center administrators say, well, what do you care if you write all this revenue off and don’t collect it. I’m just gonna make you whole on it. Well, you might this year, but if I do that for the next three years, I think you’re gonna be looking for a new anesthesia partner. So, it is definitely whether there’s not a, whether there’s a direct financial impact to your economics as an anesthesia company of making the right investments to improve collections performance. It’s going to have a long term impact on your business viability if you’re not focused on how you can collect every dollar and reduce the cost of your group relative to others in the market.

[00:26:40] Garrison Gordon: Well said. I think that just ties back to the conversation earlier of it’s a strategic partner and it can be a strategic risk. So how do you work together to do that collaboratively? So final question here. We ask all of our guests this question, what is one thing our A SC leaders can do this week to improve their surgery centers?

[00:27:05] Corey Hollman: Well, I, I think, and since we’re talking about anesthesia I loop back around to, to say let’s start by just having a real data-driven conversation with our anesthesia partner. Put the cards on the table. Look at the utilization collection, staffing assumptions and growth plans together. Like I said earlier, not emotionally, not defensively but transparently most of the problems in anesthesia, economics don’t come from bad intent. They come from misaligned assumptions that no one has revisited in years. Just old agreements, old just old logic, old thought processes and just like, just like however the. The housing market changes just because you bought a house for, $500,000 last year, doesn’t mean you could buy the same thing this year. It’s, we need to be current in what our philosophies and our thoughts are and revisit and be able to meet in the current year with the current, current economics and current challenges that are facing our centers and our anesthesia providers. Right now.

[00:28:01] Grant Duncan: Great advice. How about you, Garrison?

[00:28:04] Garrison Gordon: Yeah, I thing around, being transparent, like getting together. It’s the start of the year. Like, look at your budget, look at your plans for the year. ’cause the anesthesia group is making one plan for what they’re gonna be able to do and the surgery center is making its own plan. So in theory, those two things need to be aligned, as Corey said. So, now is a great time to be talking about, what assumptions have gone into your 2026 budget and are those aligned and are there risks to either party of not meeting those? Those things on a tactical standpoint, I think talking with your anesthesia partner about what are the risks to that subsidy amount and one thing I would say is go do a chart reconciliation with your anesthesia group, especially if you don’t have an automated process for exchange of medical records. I, I, that’s the number one thing that I always saw as an opportunity was missing billable services. So. Go do a reconciliation with your anesthesia group also.

[00:28:59] Grant Duncan: Also. Great advice.

[00:29:01] Corey Hollman: Yeah, thank you.

[00:29:01] Garrison Gordon: Thank you so much. Yeah, great conversation.

[00:29:05] Corey Hollman: Yeah, appreciate it.

[00:29:13] Grant Duncan: Alright, let’s jump into the news. First up Oath Surgical is doubling down on AI through a new partnership with Nvidia. They say the collaboration will power oath os their company’s quote, clinical intelligence platform designed to analyze surgical video, audio, and data in real time. They operate three ASCs in Oregon and companies raised about three $5 million in funding, and they’re working with more than 175 surgeons and 20 affiliated ASCs nationwide. They are positioning themselves as an AI native, a SC operator, meaning its facilities are built to capture and learn from surgical and operational data. Instead of layering AI tools onto existing workflows,

NVIDIA’s Advanced Computing and spatial AI capabilities will support real time analysis in the or. Helping automate documentation, surface insights during procedures, and reduce administrative burdens on surgeons. They talk about how the captured video and audio can generate a detailed operative note immediately after surgery. And we’ll have downstream impacts for accurate coding and billing as well.

The next story comes from health affairs where a research article is published from researchers. Derek Lake, Robert, Tyler Brown, and others where they were analyzing Optum’s acquisition of physician practices and ASCs, and how that affected surgical volume from HODs and ASCs, and if that impacted commercial pricing. On the referral side, the study found no meaningful change in physician referral patterns after Optum acquired the practices. Interestingly, the company appears to be acquiring physician groups that already have a strong tendency to refer more cases to ASCs. They were actually about sending about 5% more cases to ASCs. Than expected prior to the acquisition, after being acquired, referral behavior stayed largely the same.

Now when we look at commercial payer rates, the research article is finding that they were able to. Improve their commercial payer rates, which makes sense given the scale that they’re able to have in negotiations with insurance companies.

Next new story to mention, Medtronic and Mind Ray. Have announced they’re expanding their longstanding partnership from focusing on hospitals to also focusing on ASCs in the US more. And their goal is to try to bring more of their monitoring technology that they say is very robust for hospitals into the a SC in a more streamlined and cost effective way. They also talk about this partnership being able to simplify purchasing and implementation for ASCs by offering bundled solutions, training support, and integrated distribution channels. This is just another sign that the A SC industry is growing and many companies are wanting to get their products in front of a SC leaders.

Last story to mention here is an AI related story, and this is from an article published in Nature Biomedical Engineering. So a group of researchers used data from a large academic health system, university of Michigan Health, and they developed an AI model to. Help with neuroimaging and MRIs. They say, quote, trained on over 220,000 MRI studies. Prima uses a hierarchical vision architecture that provides general and transferable MRI features. It was tested in a one year study. Including about 30,000 MRI studies, and what they found is that this outperformed other state-of-the-art general and medical AI models.

To quote another part for it, prima offers explainable differential diagnoses, work list priority for radiologists and clinical referral recommendations. This is just one more example of how AI is going to be impacting healthcare more and more. What’s interesting is they also didn’t just analyze images. It also incorporated the patient history and clinical context to try to help improve accuracy. Now, this is coming out of a research institution, but it shows that this type of thing is going to be trickling down into ASCs in the future, and ideally that should help with better diagnoses and better treatment plans.

All right. That wraps up this week’s podcast. Thanks as always for spending some time with us this week. Please subscribe, leave a review on whatever platform you’re listening from and hope you have a great day.